In this week's episode, guest expert Ray Burgman, Director of Programs and Research at HERS, Women in Higher Education Leadership, joins us to talk about working with executive coaches and search firms and the changing nature of women's leadership in higher ed. We wrap up with our best tips and advice for considering the role that a woman's leadership network might play in your life and at the end we'll have an assignment for our listeners- we'll ask you to look into women's leadership programs at your institution or in your local area. and share your story with us on Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook and tag us @university_of_venus on IG and @UVenus on Twitter or post it on our Facebook page at http://www.facebook.com/UVenus/ and we will share, retweet, and amplify! Find University of Venus on Instagram @university_of_venus , Twitter @UVenus , and Facebook http://www.facebook.com/UVenus/
Topics Discussed in this Episode:
Resources Discussed in this Episode:
Music Credits: Magic by Six Umbrellas
Sound Engineer: Ernesto Valencia
View from Venus, Season 2, Episode 3
Mary Churchill: [00:00:00] Hello everyone and welcome to this week's episode of the View from Venus. My name is Mary Churchill, and on today's episode, I am joined by cohosts Meg Palladino and Leanne Doherty and guest expert Ray Burgman, Director of Programs and Research at HERS, Women in Higher Education Leadership. In today's episode, we'll be talking with Ray about HERS, working with executive coaches and search firms and the changing nature of women's leadership in higher ed.
[00:00:37] You will walk away with our best tips and advice for considering the role that a woman's leadership network might play in your life, and as always, at the end of the episode, we'll have a recommended assignment for you.
[00:00:48] Ray Burgman joined HERS as the Director of HERS Leadership Institute in June 2013. Prior to joining the HERS team, Ray served as the Associate Provost at New College of Florida and Associate Professor of Economics and Management and Special Advisor to the President for Strategic Faculty Initiatives at DePauw University.
[00:01:07] We asked Ray to join us on View from Venus because we wanted to hear more about the HERS Women in Higher Education Leadership network and current trends in women's leadership in higher ed.
[00:01:18] Meg Palladino: [00:01:18] Hi, Ray. Thank you for joining us. Today's question is, if you could instantly become an expert in something, what would it be?
[00:01:24] Ray Burgman: [00:01:24] If I could instantly become an expert in something, it would be baking puff pastries at high altitude. It is incredibly difficult to bake at high altitude. So this is one of those classic chemistry problems and I have not mastered that yet. And so the idea of that process, like the process of putting things together and then coming out with a wonderful product or at least a product that you expected. I feel like in most of my life I have some control over, but when it comes to baking at high altitude, nothing,
[00:02:11] Mary Churchill: [00:02:11] Meg, what's your answer?
[00:02:12] Meg Palladino: [00:02:12] Probably like personal finance or the psychology of a seven year old boy. One or the other.
[00:02:23] Leanne Doherty: [00:02:23] I would like to be able to read music not in the key of C. So, I can read C because there's no sharps or flats. You know, you can just, you can sing like the sound of music, but I would like to be an expert in sight reading everything else.
[00:02:37] Mary Churchill: [00:02:37] I would like to be -- everyone's going to be shocked to hear this -- but a fantastic driver. So I do not drive and I'm a terrible driver and I haven't driven since the 80s but I would love to snap my fingers and just be like the world's best driver. So that would be mine,
[00:02:55] Meg Palladino: [00:02:55] You mean like a race car driver?
[00:02:57] Mary Churchill: [00:02:57] Sure, sure. Anything. Drive a bus. Drive a limo. Drive a semi, on ice, in the worst weather.
[00:03:03] Leanne Doherty: [00:03:03] Like ice truckers? You want to be an ice trucker?
[00:03:10] Mary Churchill: [00:03:10] The most challenging driving situation to just be amazing at it. Yeah. That would be my one thing I would like to know how to do.
[00:03:20] Meg Palladino: [00:03:20] Ray, you're currently the Director of Programs and Research at HERS, can you tell us a little bit about HERS, especially for listeners who may not know about the organization.
[00:03:28] Ray Burgman: [00:03:28] So HERS is an organization for women leaders in higher education. We support the advancement of women leaders in higher education. I'll say what HERS was in 1972, when it was founded, is still pretty solid today.
[00:03:47] Except we have some different ideas and notions of the network and the importance of that network and how we want to develop and support a network of women leaders within higher education. We primarily do that through our programming and our programming is at a point where it is about to expand to ensure that we're supporting women leaders throughout their career.
[00:04:11] So everything from their leadership development to their career planning. So that's HERS as an organization and in a nutshell.
[00:04:19] Mary Churchill: [00:04:19] Excellent.
[00:04:19] Leanne Doherty: [00:04:19] So I am...I will out myself as a HERS graduate of two programs: of the leadership training program, as well as the amazing, like do your resume and CV over with their awesome folks. It's a very intense small group and I just couldn't believe how many of the ideas resonated with folks from different types of institutions in different positions, right? That folks were sharing similar experiences and, Ray, you've been at her since 2013 and you've seen hundreds of women come through the program, As far as women's leadership, what are the trends that you've noticed? What things have stayed consistent over time? What's changed over time within the patterns of women's leadership in higher ed?
[00:05:04] Ray Burgman: [00:05:04] So let me start with what has stayed consistent and what stayed consistent is that we have absolutely fabulous women who attend the HERS Leadership Institute, as well as Next Steps, Next Stages, and we're now launching a webinar series for our alumni.
[00:05:22] It's just always, I'm going to say humbling to be in this space with the women who attend our programs, women who know what they want to do. They are determined to get it done. Come into this space and realize, yeah, it's not just me. I'm not the only one who's feeling this thinking this or noticing this about my institution.
[00:05:44] So that has remained true over the last seven years and I would say probably true over the history of HERS from the very beginning when the Leadership Institute started in 1976. What is changed? And especially in recent years. It's that feeling of there's too much to get done and perhaps I'm not being heard, like people aren't hearing me.
[00:06:09] People don't see me for the leader that I am and what I bring to the table. I'm actually going to take back that perhaps that's a lot of what we're seeing right now. We are seeing women say: "I'm here. People aren't listening to me. They don't see me. My life is really complex and busy. I have other commitments in my life, things that I want to do," And in terms of what's happening in higher ed, as higher ed institutions have struggled to manage their budgets or to get themselves in a space where they are financially stable, we've taken away some jobs and what we've left are things that we expect faculty and staff to take on. And oftentimes as women, we are the first person that someone comes to and there's a lack of recognition for someone stepping up and saying, I'm willing to do that. So lack of recognition as far as reviews maybe concerned or promotions may be concerned.
[00:07:08] We're seeing more and more of that. And also in an era where we're talking about intersectional identities and #MeToo there's just a lot going on. On one of our listservs, so we have listservs for the Leadership Institute cohort and some of the questions -these are like really deep questions and it's great to see the network in full force to answer some of those questions.
[00:07:36] There are questions about harassment and questions about freedom of speech that are on the listserv, and it's great to have that network that can contribute a response or answer, or, here's what I've tried at my institution. So we're seeing a lot of what everyone's seeing in society in our programming.
[00:07:57] And I just keep saying it's great that we have these strong, vibrant, active networks that are there to support and help.
[00:08:04] Mary Churchill: [00:08:04] Excellent. Well, so, what I also took away from HERS, and I'm an alum as well, and I'm trying to remember, when did I graduate from HERS? 2009, I believe. I was the 2008-9 class. And I was struck at HERS about...I think that's where I first met my first executive coach and started to realize the role that search firms play.
[00:08:29] And since then I've worked also with the ACE women's leadership program and executive coaches and search firms are active in those as well. I think that academics and women in particular are often unaware of the importance that these can play in our professional lives. Can you speak to the work that HERS does to demystify coaches and search firms for women?
[00:08:52] Especially given what you just said, right? I mean, this is like you're not being seen, not being heard at your institution. This is when a coach or, you know, actively having a relationship with a search firm could really help you out.
[00:09:06] Ray Burgman: [00:09:06] So for us right now, we have a partnership with Academic Search.
[00:09:12] So Leanne mentioned one of our programs that we have on job search and that program we do in conjunction with them. One of the things that happens, I think it does, it does demystify this idea of what is it that search firms do? What is it that search consultants do? What's the value perhaps, of hiring a search firm for that next senior leadership role on your campus?
[00:09:38] The women who attend get to hear all about what the search consultant does, and also what are the things that search consultants might be looking for in someone's materials that advance them to that next stage of the search. So we have that piece. At the HERS Leadership Institute, we are talking about things like transitions and we're talking about what is it that you should ask for in a transition.
[00:10:06] I know in the past there's been this deficit thinking around coaches and getting a coach, and now it is much more normal and a part of someone's transition to an institution or into a new role. You may be at the same institution and realize you need a transition coach. So coaches and the way in which they can help you work through learning a new culture, taking on a new role.
[00:10:34] So for example, if you go from peer to supervisor with some individuals, a coach can also help you work through if you're thinking, wow, I don't belong in this role. So if you're having some imposter syndrome, which can help you work through those things as well. And coaches do lots of different types of work.
[00:10:56] So you may have a coach that helps you with strategic planning for your unit or your organization, and then you may have a coach that it's all about you and you as a leader and helping you develop as a leader in a new role. So we do spend some time talking about what coaches do, what search firms do, how you can connect things like, do I need to be nominated for this or can I just call up the search firm or connect with them?
[00:11:26] We have all of those types of conversations during HERS Leadership Institute. And I mentioned the alumni webinar series, and our theme this year is the era of wom*n with the a replaced with an asterisk because at HERS it's anyone who identifies as a woman. So in doing that, the webinar series, we were coming up here, coming up with different topics here in the office that we thought would really resonate with our alumni.
[00:11:56] And one of them was reclaiming your time. Another is landing that next role.
[00:12:02] Mary Churchill: [00:12:02] Yes.
[00:12:04] Ray Burgman: [00:12:04] And these are the types of conversations that we have at the Institute. So it's, yes, you know, don't be afraid to hire that coach. And then it's also don't be afraid to ask for what you need. So if you think you need a coach in this, I just mentioned reclaiming your time.
[00:12:23] A part of reclaiming your time is taking some time for you to figure out who you are as a leader in a new role, then ask for a coach. Hire a coach. If a part of what you're thinking is, I have done everything that I can possibly do, I've contributed everything that I can possibly contribute to this particular organization, reach out to that search firm or that search consultant and say, I have some interest in this. I'd like to learn a little bit more. So we have these big conversations and small conversations. We work on leader and leadership development. So it's “self” and organization. That's a part of what coaches can do for you. They can help you with organization and they can help you with you.
[00:13:08] Leanne Doherty: [00:13:08] And I think folks often forget they're both at the same, right? You can't do one without the other. I think that's a real big takeaway I had from this. You know, leadership skills. Sometimes you're born with them. Sometimes they can be developed, but it's also, what is it to be a leader in 2020 in higher ed?
[00:13:25] What does that look like? What, what community are you creating under those types of discussions. And that leads to my next question. I mean, my fondest memories of being part of the Institute is hanging out with Yolanda, causing trouble by being those girls in the back of the room. Not even close, but one of my dearest, closest personal connections from that was with my colleague from FAMU, a very different kind of place than Simmons, but really similar at the same time being an HBCU versus a women centered institution. But all the women there became a network for me. And as somebody who thought I had a big network, I didn't really understand what a network really looked like until after this program.
[00:14:07] So what difference can that make? What have you found through the Institute and other programming?
[00:14:14] Ray Burgman: [00:14:14] Yeah. So a part of what we know, we know that networks and networking, that they are incredibly important for anyone's advancement. So if you're thinking either leading from where you are or advancing into a new role, your network and the community that you create is important.
[00:14:35] You need people as resources and vice versa. And so the idea of mutual mentoring or peer mentoring is something that we advocate during HERS Leadership Institute. And we also advocate that in our other programming as well. We try to make sure that those connections are there and if a part of the program goal is to support or enhance that network or the community or the connection, like she has to know that and she has to know at what level of importance that is.
[00:15:07] So that the spaces are the right types of spaces. And so the breaks, you know, we have the right food at the breaks and other types of things, and that has been core to HERS from the very beginning. So the women who set up HERS, the founders, and in 1972 that was a part of what they were thinking about.
[00:15:27] They were thinking about the networks in reducing the amount of isolation that women had at their institutions and the women, if they had the right space or they had a space to connect with other women that they could grow and be so much more. And so that's a part of what we do. We create that space in that environment for the network to happen. We also do some fun programming things that mix everyone up at the HERS Leadership Institute and we place you into groups. If we have a larger cohort for Next Steps, Next Stages, we place everyone into groups based upon what their aspiration is. And we try to keep those somewhat small, like three to four people per group.
[00:16:15] But that way you have a team, you have some individuals you can rely on for various aspects of your work. We try to place people together on things like your institutional type because we know things are different at different institutional types. And we cover, we really try in terms of our recruiting for the Leadership Institute, we really try to get women from every sector that's out there. So we try to get community college representation. We try to get women's colleges and liberal arts institutions and comprehensives and research intensive institutions. We try to get everyone in that room. We'll also try to get HBCUs. It's one of our areas that we've worked on for a long time.
[00:17:05] We want to ensure that every institution has that leadership development and access to the type of leadership development that our HERS Institute provides. So we really think that's a big part of what we do. We don't say you're from a community college, so we're going to place you in this program. You're from this type of institution and we'll place you over here.
[00:17:28] We believe there's value of having everyone in the room together. And that the opportunities for solving some of these really messy and trying questions. We talk about wicked problems and wicked questions at HERS Leadership Institute, you have more capacity for doing that if you have a diversity of women leaders in the room.
[00:17:54] And so that's what we strive for.
[00:17:57] Mary Churchill: [00:17:57] Oh, I love that. And I think you're absolutely right. The more folks you can get weighing in on your challenge, the better your solution. So we have come to the end of our time. So we like to wrap up with takeaways and I'm going to start because I wanted to interrupt earlier and I'm like, no, this is my takeaway.
[00:18:14] I'll just write it down. My takeaway from this conversation is around executive coaches, and I think you reminded me that it is standard practice in the corporate sector to hire the coach for the person when they start their new position or they come in to the new company, right? That's already lined up for you when you start.
[00:18:42] So there is not a stigma and it's standard practice. I think that that is brilliant and I think more people need to ask for it when they transition either into a new role at their current institution or coming into a new institution. And I think institutions need to get ahead of that and make that a standard practice, so that the stigma of, Oh, you get an executive coach when you're in a challenging situation or you're a problem person, then you get a coach. That just needs to go away.
[00:19:10] I mean, we're investing so much money in people that we need to make sure that they're going to be successful, and the coach really helps with that, so thank you for that.
[00:19:19] Ray Burgman: [00:19:19] You're welcome. And Mary, if I must say like, people are our greatest resource.
[00:19:24] Mary Churchill: [00:19:24] Yeah, yeah, definitely. Leanne?
[00:19:27] Leanne Doherty: [00:19:27] I wanted to think more about multiple spaces for connections. You know, I tend to err on the side of the extrovert and go social, and I appreciate that I've learned over my time in the academy, that's not everyone's best place for that kind of work. And I've found that over the last couple of years, I've been really conscious of multiple spaces of connection.
[00:19:49] And I think that this just reminds me of that opportunity and to keep that moving forward.
[00:19:55] Mary Churchill: [00:19:55] Nice. Meg?
[00:19:57] Meg Palladino: [00:19:57] I feel like I tend to be more of a listener than a talker, and networking always like makes me want to crawl under the table, and so I should probably get myself nominated to something like HERS.
[00:20:12] Ray Burgman: [00:20:12] We make it so easy. And so let me go ahead and here at the end out myself also as a HERS alumna. Not only do I work here, I have done it, and I am, I mean, I'm your classic introvert and yet in times and spaces where it's something that I love and enjoy, I am, I'm an extrovert. So for those things.
[00:20:44] And so for HERS, I'm an extrovert when I was still in the classroom, extrovert. In my leadership roles, extrovert. And so when I tell people I'm an introvert, they're like, there is no way. And let me tell you this weekend, after we were at the Association of American Colleges and Universities meeting, I arrived home on Saturday and immediately crawled into bed.
[00:21:09] Meg, I had had my networking max. And so I feel like we do make it easy and we make it easy for you to find your passion and find that space in place where the networking is easy and not an issue at all.
[00:21:28] Mary Churchill: [00:21:28] Well, thank you. Thank you so much, Ray. This was fantastic.
[00:21:32] Okay, listeners, here's this week's assignment. Look into women's leadership programs at your institution or in your local area. Share your story with us on IG, Twitter, or Facebook and tag us at @UVenus and we'll retweet, share in our story and post on Facebook. As always, thank you for joining us and we'll be back next week with Kimberly Lee talking about her work with the ACE women's network.